Talk:Ordainer
How many people have this class? if you do, is it any good? I want this class, and would like to know more about it before i start so i am not wasting my time. thanks.Caspa992 08:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC) This is really strange class for pre-requisites to change to it. I am trying to figure out the exact requirements to be met, but I can only manage to go straight to Legendary Ordainer, not any of the lower ranks. The only conclusion I can say with complete certainty is the requirements we think are required are not. For starters: *Rush will only change to Ordainer class if he has an Axe in his main hand, this is far from the Katana requirement previously thought to be right. *If I learn all Combat Arts with all wield styles and all weapon XP counters @ 5000XP limit Rush will change to Legendary rank. Otherwise he won't change class, but I think this has something to do with pure luck. I don't think all weapon XP maxed is a requirement, rather it just satisfies the requirements by chance as the actual requirements lie within the scope of all Combat Arts, but not exactly all. *All Wield Styles seems to play some role in changing, but maybe not all weapons all wields. Axe Specific combat arts are most likely the primary requirements to change to this class, and to get all those requires all wield styles. *Rush wouldn't change for me without ~4000XP in all wield style counters (2H, 1H, PG, DW). *I brute forced all combat arts to max XP because any less would prevent class change, though I haven't figured out which ones were preventing the chance exactly, just sheer luck in this case. I need to dwell on this class more and figure out how to change to base Ordainer rank, and step through each rank of the class one by one. Only then will the requirements be something I can reproduce without having to resort to MAxing out XP counters. This class shouldn't be nearly as impossible as it seems to change to, as Ninja or Warlock are nowhere near as difficult to obtain in a play through, so this should be no different albeit the approach. Mikeyakame 05:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Requirements, as taken straight from the class record: All weapon types skill level 19 for Ordainer, 20 for Expert, 21 for Adept, 22 for Master, 23 for Lordly, and 25 for Legendary. That's it. None of the other nonsense matters one bit, although i didn't check Item/Mystic relation. I don't think it matters though. Drake178 07:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Ok sure I see the values, but what do those skill levels mean exactly and what are they extrapolated from? Mikeyakame 07:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I'll make a xp -> skill level table sometime. Drake178 07:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I've used Axe through my whole game (mostly power grip). I've maxed out all the power grip arts, and my Rush is Scout. I only have one of the two axe arts for one handed though. Seattlebrian 11:56, 15 July 2009 (UTC) :Forget what I wrote Drake is right here, I shouldn't look too deep into things on very little sleep as the end result is missing important details. It requires all 6 types of weapons. Skill Level 19 for Ordainer base is approximately 2600-2650XP for each Weapon type. It's quite a lot in other words. Everytime you use a combat art and successfully hit the target you get 4XP in normal conditions, 6XP from 200-399 chains, 8XP from 400+. So it's basically a class that requires at least a week or two of solid grinding in Mystic Seal to change into. It took me ~20 ranks just to get my Skill Levels to 9 - 10 for all 6 weapons, which is nearly half way. I am upto 690 chains in Fornstrand and out of Items for recovery, and I'm going to change myself to Legendary Ordainer the ethically incorrect way because I'll go crazy if I keep this up. The one key lesson I've learnt from this class is that you have to start working at it from the beginning of the game when you have 12 or less party members, and they all have crappy weapons. Otherwise you end up in my predicament, where a S/SS rank combat art use in Mystic Seal does easy 10+K HP damage at full morale. I've even had some do 20-30K HP hits, you'd think with 0 atk it'd be impossible, but apparently that 20-30K in Mystic Seal does 100-120K in a normal formation with ~200-220ATK. Mikeyakame 14:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Item/Mystic Art Skill Level Equivalence Requirement Well after all the stress Drake suffered from me. I guess I owe him something for it. So here's my penance. Ordainer Class requires skill levels for Item Arts >= Mystic Arts to change class. Just to be certain this time, I first set all 6 Weapon XP to 3700 which gave me the equivalent of Skill Level 25 on each after I triggered the update by using combat arts with each Weapon. Ok so now I am at the situation where all Skill Levels for weapons are 25 so I've met the primary requirements for Ordainer but no change even after 2 or 3 battles at this point. So I thought about what the problem could be, and I remember you saying you never bothered testing the skill levels of Item & Mystic arts for this class. Well Rush being a Legendary Commander you can imagine how one-sided my skill levels were :D This is how they looked: *Mystic: Inv - 4, Evo - 4, Hex - 6, Rem - 21, Psi - 18, Ward - 25 *Item: Herb - 9, Potion - 1, Lotions - 13, Expl - 1, Shards - 7, Traps - 1 Without a doubt they are mystic sided heavily. So I made a few small changes to Item Art skill levels before the next battle ( Herb = 19, Potion = 11, Explosives = 11, Shards = 9, Traps = 12 ) as these values would have at least balanced out the mystic art skill levels at the bare minimum and since I don't quite know how the code evaluates the skill levels for either type whether it be Median skill level, or some fancy approach. None the less what would you know, Rush has changed to Legendary Ordainer at the end of the battle ;) So there is definitely a loop there that evaluates Mystic & Item Art usage before a class change occurs, I probably went a bit overboard on the Item Art skill levels but at least we now have the final piece of the class change puzzle. Whether it is Item & Mystic equivalent skill levels or Item skill levels collectively higher than Mystic, it narrows it down to 2 possible scenarios, for Equivalent Skill Levels if Item Arts are too high it is a simple matter of spamming Mystic Arts enough until class change happens. This is much easier to do than the alternative of spamming Item Arts to play catch up. In the other scenario Item Arts greater than Mystic well after going through all this rigmarole to change to Ordainer class I would have anybody ask themselves this, why the hell would you bother spending valuable battle turns on learning Mystic Arts when the Weapon Specific Skill Level requirements for this class to be reached will take no less than a good 60 - 70 battle ranks and at least 2-300 hours of repetitive grinding to clock up the necessary combat art usage, mystic art usage is the least of your problems I think. From my rough calculations if you never break 200 battle chains in your game, it should take roughly: *~900 successful combat art uses with each weapon to reach the Skill Level for Legendary Ordainer, that is 4XP * 900 = 3600XP which translates to Skill Level 24. 3700XP gives me Skill Level 25. *Assume 900 successful hits, no misses or KO before use, that means 5400 successful combat art uses MINIMUM, but more likely will be nearer 6000 by the time you account for misses and other non-success states. The ultimate way to fail an attempt for this class is by using weapons with decent stats or worse high stats. Best thing you can do is buy all 6 types of weapons from the Athlum weapon shop at the beginning of the game, and use these 6 weapons for all your Combat Art usage. Why you ask? Their stats suck and even when using Mystic Seal formation (which you will have to use if you would prefer not to see your battle rank at 150+ just to change to this class) your SS rank combat arts at Peerless or Swift will do pathetic damage, probably equivalent to the damage of a Peerless Rank C Combat Art with a 150+ ATK weapon while in Mystic Seal. So key to this class is make sure your weapons suck, and so do the rest of the guys in your union or otherwise disable all arts that can do moderate damage and hinder your progress. Mikeyakame 17:28, 15 July 2009 (UTC) I'm already looking into the class change mechanics, but it will take a few days at least to figure it out. Drake178 07:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC) damn, i have a lot of doubts... to get that... you need to use for example... sword in one handed, in two handed and in dual wield?, and same with axe, katana, mace? then staff and spear would be faster and other thing... i have been using dual wield with swords all time and got the last (SS rank) skill... how much "skill level" would be that? Thanks in advance :P 20:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)Peilor :The wields don't matter, only the weapon skills, ie you can use sword, katana, axe and mace all one-handed (or any other wield style). I'll check this later but if by any chance dual wield gains xp with both weapons then using DW with 2 different ones would be the fastest way to get Ordainer. And as for skill levels required for stuff that's my next research. Drake178 22:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC) If you are going to use dual wield, make sure Katana is the last weapon you use otherwise there is a good chance you'll become a Ninja instead of an Ordainer :) Mikeyakame 01:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC) Don't worry mike, i play in xbox version, and thanks for replying drake. I'll start grinding skills after i do some grinding in ancient ruins (at last). Oh btw, i grind in robelia castle as mentioned in "rush only skill stuff" in the wiki, it was kind of useful to getting all herb skills with my leaders :P 10:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)Peilord what specific arts should i level up on the way to get ordainer? is it a weapon specific arts (ex: sword-cross slice) or wield specific arts (ex: onehand-knee splitter)? im confused :? :Any and all combat arts with every weapon types. Only combat arts count towards Ordainer and all combat arts give equal Exp to the Weapon type, so actually using the lower Rank arts has no hit to your Exp gains while reducing the amount of damage you do grinding. Wield doesn't matter at all. I've changed to Ordainer before and personally I use 3 wield styles to do it. Two-Handed is required no matter what because of staff/spear, and I also use One-Handed/Power Grip as well to spread the combat art usage across the other 4 remaining (mace/axe/sword/katana) weapons. Sometimes having Peerless/Swift V of all one wield style hurts your progress because they do way too much damage to enemies, even in Mystic Seal. The more you spread out your combat arts across wield styles, the more it'll benefit you at the end. If you do use Dual Wield and are on PC version, make sure your Mystic/Item balance is favouring Item Arts or balanced. Otherwise You'll end up a Ninja is Katana/Dual Wield Exp is high enough and your Mystic/Item balance favours Mystic. Mikeyakame 11:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC) so.. what you are saying is, if I level knee splitter up to peerless/swift V which is a onehand wield skill will have an equal amount of xp to other weapons which has this skill? second question, if i reached knee splitter peerless/swift V is that equal to weapon level 19? so that means i can have all one handed weapons to level 19 with just a single art? or i misunderstood it.. by the way tnx 4 da reply :p (markoholic) You can use Knee Splitter or Double Slash and you'll get the same Experience from using each. Level 19 for one Weapon is the equivalent of about 800 combat art uses where everyone connects with the enemy, or 1600 combat art uses where everyone misses. You need to do that for each of the 6 weapon types. You need to use combat arts on each of the 6 weapons, so to give you a rough idea of the minimum amount of combat art uses to reach ordainer with all 6 weapons, it would be about 5000 uses of any combat art, where you use at least 800 with each weapon type. Mikeyakame 04:07, 5 August 2009 (UTC) oh.. i get it now, tnx again 4 da help.. by the way is der a way or an identifier on how i can keep track my weapon level? so i can change to another weapon if i reach that level.. if none then i have to count 800 combat art i use? (markoholic) :If you're on PC, getting the second weapon specific combat art (Requiem, Snowfall, etc) is level 16. From there, if you only use that art, you can stop when it gets to Tier IV. That should be just above Level 19. Drake178 07:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC) tnx a bunch ur a great help.. so i have to use the command combat arts again and again until i learn weapon specific arts? thats great! (markoholic) and tier 4 is equal to level 4 requiem or is it until i reach swift? (markoholic) Savegame viewing in a Hex Editor for Weapon/Wield Skill Levels There is two ways of checking, one is via CheatEngine or the similar, but I won't go with that way because it is difficult. Other way is through opening your current Savegame file in a Hex Editor and viewing the address offsets I'll give you. If you are on PC you can do this, if not I can't help you. Your savegame files should be in Documents\My Games\the last remnant\RushGame\Save\ Savegame00 is autosave. The rest follow the correct order, so Savegame01 = Save Slot 1....and so on. Find your current Savegame which will be SavegameXX where XX is the save game slot number in the game. Make a copy of it to Documents\My Games\the last remnant\ or so just so you don't accidentally damage it! You'll to download a Hex Editor, a free one like this will do the job! http://www.hhdsoftware.com/Products/home/hex-editor-free.html Open the savegameXX file with the Hex Editor. Goto Offset (ctrl+g) and put the value after the 0x in the address. IE. for Rush Sword Skill Level put in "C4AC0" and go to there. The value will be Hexadecimal, so just open Windows Calculator, go to Programmer Mode, select the Hex radio button, and put the value of that byte in. Say it might be 0D, so you put in 0D and press the Dec radio button. That'll give you the decimal value which would be 13. That is your current Sword Skill Level. Same applies for the rest. *0xC4AC0 = Rush Sword Skill Level *0xC4AC6 = Rush Katana Skill Level *0xC4ACC = Rush Axe Skill Level *0xC4AD2 = Rush Mace Skill Level *0xC4AD8 = Rush Spear Skill Level *0xC4ADE = Rush Staff Skill Level *0xC8390 = Rush One-Handed Wield Skill Level *0xC8396 = Rush Power Grip Wield Skill Level *0xC839C = Rush Dual-Wield Skill Level *0xC83A2 = Rush Two-Handed SKill Level Unfortunately if this is too hard, there's not much I can do but this is the easiest way to check. Those offsets should be constant with all Savegame files, I checked a couple and they appeared to be static for those values. If they aren't let me know. Mikeyakame 08:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC) Edit: Drakes method works too and it is a lot easier. But if you don't mind viewing in a Hex Editor you can do what I wrote above! Mikeyakame 08:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC) what will I put in the calculator? is it the highlighted value appears as you enter the value for weapon skill level in the offset? (markoholic) Mikeykame.. i think ur wrong on dis part dat uhave said "Say it might be 0D, so you put in 0D and press the Dec radio button. That'll give you the decimal value which would be 13" ive done a series of test, u actually dont need to use the calculator.. there is a digit/number written on da left side of the highlighted box. I used my save game, on my game i only use staff.. so basically all combart usage is from my staff, i did what you said on your hex thing. As i input staff weapon skill level value which is C4ADE, i find that der is a double digit (58) written beside the highlighted box.. i test it if will go up if i use combat art and it did, it goes up from 58-60.. what more im not convince yet but after i use combat art it did go up again from 60-62.. i guess dis is the weapon xp from my staff which gains 2xp for every combat art usage. (correct me if im wrong) - markoholic but some needs calculator :Staff Exp Lvl should be 3 bytes past the Experience Counter. It looks like this: 08 00 00 07 FF where 00 is Experience and 00 is Exp Level. Sword Experience should start at 0xC4ABC, there are 6 repeated blocks like above or similar, sword 1st, staff 6th, you should have 00 00 00 FF FF where there are blank. 0E 00 00 19 FF 0E 00 00 19 FF 0E 00 00 19 FF 0E 00 00 19 FF 0E 00 00 19 FF 0E 00 00 19 FF That is Skill Level 0x19 (25) on all 6 weapons. If youve used only staff you should have: 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00 FF FF 12 00 00 05 FF <- that one is staff, the 5 before are the other 5 weapons. that 05 value is your skill level. To convert say 0x19 in mine like above, 0x10 = 16 + 0x9 = 9 = 25. 0x00-0F = 0 - 15, 0x10-1F = 16-31. Mikeyakame 18:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC) i have a question, can i see my other charcters skill level with this? Yep, but you'd have to work out which is which! I can tell you the first few in order. Each should be 36 bytes. Rush 01 -> 36 bytes David 37 -> 72 bytes Emma 73 -> 108 bytes Blocter 109 -> 144 bytes Pagus 145 -> 180 bytes Torgal 181 -> 216 bytes Emmy 5797 -> 5832 bytes Irina 10549 -> 10584 bytes I've never really looked much for the other ones. They should be the right offset from the start of that Weapon Skill/Exp table. Emmy is 162 in character list, and Irina is 294. 17:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC) ei. i cant really understand how to see other character's weapon exp. where will i start counting(knowing that each character has 36bytes interval)? tnx -tmac i get it now, i have encoded the other characters that ive been using for now.. how bout the wield skill level, it has a different interval or is still 36 bytes difference between characters? (markoholic) Heres my written data for wield! *0xC838C is Rush's wield style block *0xC83B6 should be David's. From there every 42 bytes or 0x2A bytes. Next after David should be Emma -> 0x000C83E0, and so on! 0xC838C-C838D = Rush One-Handed XP Counter 0xC838E-C838F = Unused 0xC8390 = Rush One-Handed Wield Skill Level 0xC8391 = Unused 0xC8392-C8393 = Rush Power Grip Wield XP Counter 0xC8394-C8395 = Unused 0xC8396 = Rush Power Grip Wield Skill Level 0xC8397 = Unused 0xC8398-C8399 = Rush Dual-Wield XP Counter 0xC839A-C839B = Unused 0xC839C = Rush Dual-Wield Skill Level 0xC839D = Unused 0xC839E-C839F = Rush Two-Handed XP Counter 0xC83A0-C83A1 = Unused 0xC83A2 = Rush Two-Handed SKill Level 0xC83A3 = Unused <---------------------------------------------> Empty block for non-sovanis start 0xC83A4-C83A5 = Rush Quad Wield XP Counter 0xC83A6-C83A7 = Unused 0xC83A8 = Rush Quad Wield Skill Level 0xC83A9 = Unused 0xC83AA-C83AB = Rush Dual Power Grip XP Counter 0xC83AC-C83AD = Unused 0xC83AE = Rush Dual Power Grip Skill Level 0xC83AF = Unused 0xC83B0-C83B1 = Rush Dual Two-Handed XP Counter 0xC83B2-C83B3 = Unused 0xC83B4 = Rush Dual Two-Handed Skill Level 0xC83B5 = Unused <---------------------------------------------> Empty block for non-sovanis finish That is what a wield style block for a character looks like If I recall correctly. The Sovani wield style xp + skill blocks should be blank entries for any non-sovanis. The next block should start after the 3 blank wield style blocks for Rush, which should be David. Each Characters Wield style block should be 42 bytes long. If it's not let me know and I'll take another look at the save file! Mikeyakame 08:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC) A comprehensive list A detailed list of each weapons combat art and what weapon level you get them at would be extremely helpful for getting classes such as this one. So that way when you get say Spring Squall, you know exactly what level your Katana skill is. And say you have Spring Squall in Dual Wield, and Snowfall in One-Handed, do they add up? Brakkis 06:35, 21 January 2010 only rush can be ordainer? Above topic. As a side note sovani come with all the wield styles though they don't use all of them. If I use the rush skill grind will they become ordainers if I get all their combat arts (even the ones they normally can't use) and level them up to max? And can generals with all the wield styles become ordainer? I think emmy can learn all the styles :It's not all wield styles, it's all weapon types. Noone but Rush can become one. Drake178 21:42, May 19, 2010 (UTC) Hmmm. I wonder what the creators were thinking making a class only rush can get. At least wyngale and leucetius can become warlocks...so by weapon types I'm assuming you're talking about leveling up all the weapon types by using them. I know every style has specific arts for a weapon type like cyclone but its not as simple as learning those arts is it? :It's a hidden value that is used for stuffs like Weapon Arts, which incidentally, all needs less than the requisite for Ordainer. So it's more of an incentive to develop your Weapon Types further, I think. Look here for more information http://lastremnant.wikia.com/wiki/Developing_Arts#Basics. Also, do you think the safety skill is good enough to get this over Gladiator? ( 16:42, September 10, 2010 (UTC)) Grinding for this class I can get all SS weapon specific arts except Temblor. Rush learned crush but will not get Temblor no matter how many combat arts are used. 2 Leaders in reserve I never use have it. Anyone know why this is?--Jay222 02:52, May 28, 2011 (UTC) :I really should read the JP X360 wiki's Bug page more often... There's apparently a bug/glitch with Rush's Staff EXP, so you need to equip him with something that boosts WT EXP gained (having a high Chain obviously helps too). Not sure how that works, but someone did eventually confirm that Ordainer can achieved (2009/09/26). Zephyr 19:05, June 22, 2011 (UTC) I thought so. When I went for this class I had 100% exp from chain, Ragna-rock and rubber soul. Landed hundreds of CAs after rush learned crush. I don't see how this class is possible when exp on staff seems to stop after crush.--Jay222 02:01, June 23, 2011 (UTC) reaching this class sorry for asking from the start, but how do i reach this class, again? i have had multiple runs for this class but have not been successful in reaching this class ever, so please can someone clarify the following? i want to become legendary ordainer * Q 1- which one of these is correct?(what do i have to learn) : 1- one handed(sword 19+ katana 19 +mace 19 +axe 19)+ dual wield (sword 19+ katana 19+axe 19+mace 19) + power grip (sword 19 + katana 19 + axe 19 + mace 19) +two handed (staff 19 + spear 19) or : 2- one handed 19+ two handed 19 + power grip 19 + dual wield 19 (note that if its skill level 19, then i can level cutting lunge, blue streak and knee spitter up to 19 which will satisfy (skill 19) for katana,sword,axe and mace simultaneously, and same for dual wield, power grip and two handed) * Q 2- skill level 19 or ss arts(snowfall/requiem etc) --Avil172 (talk) 13:32, April 12, 2014 (UTC)avil172 : 1. For arts, they only go up to Lv5 then stop gaining EXP. Selecting those arts will still award EXP towards their Wield Style and the currently equipped Weapon Type. So, both are those are technically wrong. Wield Style isn't taken into account at all for Ordainer and you would likely far exceed the requirements if you were training for them alongside Weapon Types. The requirements are as follows for the base Ordainer tier: :* Sword 19+ :* Katana 19+ :* Axe 19+ :* Mace 19+ :* Spear 19+ :* Staff 19+ :* Item/Mystic balance (skill sums within the categories are within 10~12% of each other; Items 10 + Mystics 11 would be considered "balanced") :* Wield Style doesn't matter/class doesn't even look at it. The game doesn't care if you were using One-Handed, then changed to Power Grip while using the same Weapon Type. If the training is contributing to the Weapon Type level, that's all that matters. : Rush only gets WT EXP from whatever is equipped in the main slot. If you're using the Ragna-rock, Rubber Soul or Doom Chain, then the sub slot will also contribute while Dual Wielding in addition to the multiplier on the main slot. : 2. Just focus on Skill levels since Rank SS comes in at Lv16. Arts will come naturally. One benchmark you can use if not using a trainer to check on skill levels is getting the Rank SS CA, then training only that to Lv4. That should give enough EXP for Lv19 in a particular Weapon. Which I suppose is using the SS arts... Zephyr (talk) 23:20, April 12, 2014 (UTC) by sword 19 , you mean power grip sword 19+ one handed sword 19 + DW sword 19 ???? can i reach this class by only training in combat arts??? i mean w/o having to do the mystic/item balance if i dont train in mystic and items at all?? will that effect my stats?? i.e. INT may not grow up due to not using mystic arts at all : By Sword 19, I literally mean "Sword 19". It doesn't matter which Wield Style you use to get there, the class doesn't care. It's not even looking at it. If you have Sword 19 with DW9 + OH20 + PG3, you still meet the Sword 19 requirement. Hell, if you wipe out Rush's WS levels and keep all the Weapon levels 19+, he'll still meet the requirements because the class is only looking at the Weapon Type levels. If Wield Styles were to be taken into account, we would have stated that as part of the requirements. There is no separate Weapon Type level associated with each Wield Style. Levelling Sword with One-Handed to Requiem then switching over to Power Grip will retain all the Sword levels. It also means that you only have to use normal attacks (gives Wield Style EXP only) to get the Rank A (PG9 + WT8) and Rank SS (PG20 + WT16) Power Grip Sword arts. : Yes, it's possible to get the class with training only CAs. Assuming that it's a fresh game (Invo 1, Herbs 1) or NG+ with everything acquired (Items 6, Mystics 6), then he starts with the balance and you won't have to worry about it if you block all usage. Yes, it will skew Rush's stats because of focusing primarily on CAs, which gives STR EXP and will favour STR growth. INT will still increase, although it will be quite slow since it will only increase via end-of-battle EXP and INT procs. Zephyr (talk) 01:39, April 13, 2014 (UTC) do you think speed/strength modifiers play a role in reaching this class, because nimble growth boost is faster than mighty, and once you hit mighty, you have groth boost will be pretty slow : Speed/Strength modifiers don't affect how quickly you get to Ordainer. Speed modifiers only attach faster if you're Dual Wielding 2 Speed+ weapons. Dual Wielding 2 Power weapons attaches the Power modifier at a normal rate. Neither of them help with boosting Weapon Type EXP rates, which is what the class is looking for. Zephyr (talk) 14:19, April 13, 2014 (UTC) thats all i needed to know, thanks--Avil172 (talk) 15:27, April 13, 2014 (UTC)avil172 actually, i wasn't asking that exactly, i am asking that the ragna rock doesn't help with nimble/mighty growth boost, so if i am using faleria heart do i have high chance to achieve this class sooner than using frostblade?--Avil172 (talk) 02:43, April 20, 2014 (UTC)avil172 : Same rate since it's dependent on how quickly you can get the WT EXP. The Faleria Heart doesn't have any special modifiers for any sort of EXP either, so it'll contribute Sword EXP at the same rate as any other Sword. Zephyr (talk) 03:29, April 20, 2014 (UTC) so i also failed to reach this class this time, BR 52, sacred lands, going to finish and restart the game again, current class is l.commnander which is too nice...1 this was very bad experience because some party members are completely screwed(rush's union) because of always have to use CA and now their intellect is poor as rush, i was using 2 ragna rocks+SOV and so far i only achieved axe 25, staff 12, others 0. i could craft my party members some epic weapons in the meantime, but i couldn't . simply to avoid one hit kills, i cant enter any areas except ancient ruins , , even if you stay long in an area to create 9999 chains, you will run out of consumables, some party members will be unable to learn new skill trees thus preventing class change( eg- violet cant become a druid if hexes isn't significant so to learn hexes you must exit to world map which means breaking the chain) same goes for pagus-commander, irina-alchemist so, to achieve one class for rush, you have to sacrifice intellect of some other units as well as rush and other units' classes too(?) even if you get ordainer(which wont happen before BR 100), your enemies will never live to see the damage(CA+5), because of other units already killing him before your turn with one hit kills, i will be damned if i ever think about getting this class ever again.--Avil172 (talk) 04:18, April 21, 2014 (UTC)avil172 : I believe someone managed to get the class before reaching BR100 (he's somewhere on GFAQs, probably around late-2012). It not being possible before BR100 is definitely the case on the X360 though. Reaching Legendary Ordainer is a different issue altogether. I question the use of the Shield of the Vanquisher + 2 Ragna-rocks if you're concerned about EXP. Why not just DW the Sword/Katana/Axe/Mace to stack EXP from the sub slot? And use the weakest customizations you can find. : That kind of training and progression is to be expected. If you're hellbent on training everyone's skill sets (which, by the way, is a complete waste of time), then of course you're going to run into those kinds of problems (unbalanced stat growth). I really don't think it's a problem if a few units have low INT, especially if they're using something like Psi or Wards (and potentially Rem for reviving). If they're in a combat union, they're meant to hit hard and fast. You're probably also blowing everything out of proportion. A good deal of some units' potential classes can't come about without a higher BR anyways. If you have to exit out of an area to get them to ask a question, then do it. Those EXP multipliers are a bonus. Rush is already getting 5x EXP from the 2 Ragna-rocks. Also might as well leave everyone else with their defaults, upgrading manually and training at the same time. : It's really more of a bragging rights class. Gladiator and Ninja are better in terms of consistent damage and ease of access. Also, seriously? You're never going to get a OHKO against a decent number of endgame enemies. And they can live to see the damage; just send in Rush. Zephyr (talk) 05:29, April 21, 2014 (UTC) well, unless its diatryma, brynhildr or AR GDs, its one hit kill for all, okay... maybe 3-4 cases like irina cant do OHKOs but by the time they deadlock, the enemy union never gets to see the next turn(even w/o flanking by other ally unions), and you know, how hard it is to spawn the diatryma/brynhildrs/GDs. other fact is i have been maintaining very low BR everytime,even finishing 100% side quests , thus reaching undelwalt within BR (27-32) hard mode, thanks to Rush solo comet+SOV+2*hinnah's earring, so it may be the stats that is causing the OHKOs BTW, what do you suggest,should i use PG or DW for ordainer?? because in my previous runs, whenever i use PG with 2*ragna rocks, i see rush learning multiple WT arts everytime while training with a single weapon, for example- i was using rush+blackjack and i learnt dragon's tail, hyper hammer, moonset and cyclone at the same time. how is that possible? while using DW i once reached ninja, which is not abnormal, but what would be abnormal is if i learn double swing,blood rage and SPRING SQUALL at the same time while using ragna rocks with 2 swords. which makes rush ninja, now can i prevent it?--Avil172 (talk) 06:37, April 21, 2014 (UTC)avil172 : Eh, not really. Depends on where you're looking. If you're poking at Mt. Vackel, then the Brynhildr and Greater Demons are a little bit more difficult, but Diatryma aren't hard to spawn at all. For all your complaining, just looking at what you're doing would be helpful. Of course having that sort of equipment and using Comet is going to result in some pretty lopsided battles against Rush. Maybe you should tweak your setup if it's giving you that much trouble. : Learning multiple Weapon specific arts is perfectly normal. It happens because Rush has the WT levels, but not the WS level. : Ninja isn't an issue if Rush doesn't have co-significance with Mystics. If you're going for Ordainer and haven't touched any Mystics, then Rush is in absolutely no danger of becoming a Ninja by accident. If you're training a bunch of WT and have Mystic co-significance, then it would still be pretty normal to get a bunch of weapon specific arts upon reaching DW20. If you already have the DW level and just training Swords, that might be worth investigating... unless you've been playing around with a trainer again. : Not going to suggest anything. You should be able to figure this out yourself after 7+ playthroughs~ Zephyr (talk) 09:22, April 24, 2014 (UTC) well, i am currently testing it with two generic leaders with 2 ragna rocks each, they are faye and carmen, they dont have any mystic so this is possibly the best way i can test the benefits of this class and i dont have to worry about intellect restrictions with rush, moreover i have put them both in jager's union, so i dont have to worry about getting normal attacks too, i am using DW on both of them// do you think i could use power grip on one of them?// thank you for your cooperations.//--Avil172 (talk) 13:12, April 24, 2014 (UTC)avil172 : Using DW will help with gaining WT EXP faster since the Ragna-rocks add EXP from the sub slot. Using DW normally would result in only EXP from the main slot. If you switch over to PG, you lose the sub slot EXP because it's not active anymore. Unless you want PG arts, using it is pointless with it comes to a EXP standpoint. This is assuming that you've equipped the units properly... : What INT restriction on Rush? And you still have the chance of getting normal attacks because of AP limitations. Zephyr (talk) 15:45, April 24, 2014 (UTC) Which class is better ordainer or ninja? : It depends on what you are interested in: if Rush is Dual Wielding, then Ninja will help you achieve the same damage output as Ordainer while being much easier to get. For any other Wield Style, Ordainer is the better class, as it boosts damage for all Wield Styles. Also, both classes grant skills that enable the use of flanking commands: Ordainer grants the Commander skill, enabling the use of the "Wait for a chance!" command (when this command is given, the union waits for another union to deadlock the target then flanks the target), while Ninja grants the Ambush skill, enabling the use of the "Hit'em from behind" command (allows the union to rear-assault a target while ignoring Multi-Deadlock). I personally think that the Ambush skill is better than the Commander skill. Other than that, both classes grant the Safety skill (immunity to instakill). It really comes down to Rush's Wield Style. I suppose you already know about the extensive Combat Arts training to get to Ordainer. --Aymen623 (talk) 19:31, September 22, 2014 (UTC)